|
Post by Rehiro on Oct 30, 2005 23:33:06 GMT -5
I thought we could start using this forum to talk about CTV again. So this thread is for talking about the new developing storyline with Zeno and Tony, since I think it deserves a thread.
Does anyone think that Tony was a little slow to act? He kept talking and talking but he never actually made a move against Zeno. If I were him, I would have realized what was going on a lot faster, and even if the effort was futile, I would have tried best to hurt him.
And i'd've figured out something was wrong with Zeno a lot quicker, and have made moves to prevent something like this from happening.
What do other people think is the cause of Zeno's newfound violence?
|
|
|
Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Oct 30, 2005 23:47:16 GMT -5
Hehehe. First, I really like your first point... While outside talk does rock, this is a CTV message board...
Now, for the other stuff. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the scythe causing all this to Zeno... But I'm saving a little place in case Amelius decides to throw some other twist in. It's happened before.
And as for Tony being slow to react... I can't blame him. I'd be slow too--slower than he was, in fact.
|
|
|
Post by silverwolf on Oct 31, 2005 22:53:44 GMT -5
Yeh, I'd probably be all talk and no understanding as well. This is my post on the ordeal (as seen under the comic of 10-27-2005)
Before I start up, I'd like to mention, I don't hate any of these characters.
I have a deep-run sympathy for Zeno, because I think that the sythe did, infact, posess his body, much the way that the axe possesed Zerlocke. See #342 and "Run little rabbit run". My guess is that there is a price on using elite weapons and your mind is forfeit. I also think that Tony is justified. He did just get beat about the face by one of his close friends. He probably realizes by now that Zeno is NOT in his right mind and that killing him will solve nothing. Sometimes you have to hurt the body to repair the mind. Also, Tony is probably in the right because of the iron incident. Iron is one of the worst substances known to fairy-kind. Also, I think some of you are being to hard on Charby and Menu. See the last panel in 526. They were worried!
That's the whole thing, if none of you read the debate, you should, it's very interesting and explains some of my points.
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 1, 2005 17:14:29 GMT -5
I'd have attacked Zeno with all I had, the moment he grabbed my wrist.
Yeah, I read some of the Tony vs. Zeno stuff in the comments section.
I dont think that the scythe can be posessing him entirely, because he still has Zenos desires. The scythe wants Mye dead... or maybe a part of Zeno does, but in this case he just seems to be taking advantage of her. Zeno, upon questioning, seems very unconcerned with how other people see him. He dosent seem particularly interested in making sure he gets away with his actions. He just seems to know what he wants, and then he takes it. People are factors in his life to him but he dosent care about them as people anymore. But yeah, he still has Zeno's thoughts and desires and stuff. Did any of his family have freaky shadows?
And Charby and Menu may have been worried, but they sure didnt do much. And I disagree with all those people that said that Charby seemed so smart in that one where he goes "curiouser and curiouser". Anyone with a quarter of a brain should be noticing somethings going on!
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 1, 2005 21:36:04 GMT -5
I agree, Rehiro, but I must add the point that we see from most angles, stuff that Charby and the rest of the characters can't possibly see. Obviously 'something' is going on, but perhaps most of the others weren't realy paying attention to Zeno, and didn't he (Zeno) generally keep to himself for the most of his time, reading in his room, playing and listening to music, fetching food... Just a thought.
|
|
|
Post by deltaT on Nov 2, 2005 1:47:07 GMT -5
I have to agree with Rehiro on this one....maybe it does help to be the viewer, but I really don't think it would have taken me so long to catch on that Zeno was seriously attacking me. I do have some experience with a loved one suddenly deloping a different personality, and believe me, you notice. Maybe you don't understand why, but if it's someone you've known for a long time, you do see it.
|
|
|
Post by Amelius on Nov 2, 2005 2:57:11 GMT -5
Well I don't want to say too much and give things away, I just wanted to say a few things about Tony and Charby's reactions (rather apathetic) to Zeno's downhill mental slide. These guys have known him for over 5 years (at this point) and they'd never have expected this kind of thing to happen. It's kinda like the neighbor's frienly dog you've known and played with for years suddenly biting violently into your leg because he's recently contracted rabies and no one noticed... While they did know Zeno was prone to violent streaks and attacks of anxiety and depression for which his medication is prescribed, they could not fathom in a million years Zeno calculating such an insidious betrayal. Zeno just isn't athe planning type either, he will usually straight-up confront someone (as he has in the past) rather than slyly plan a foe or friend's demise so that it is fool-proof. He has never been one to care about consequences either. The type of demon he is (Scotodino) are terrible socially, but not overall malicious. The only encounter so far that has been in the comic (my version that is) with another scotodino, showed the demon ripping a live buck in half and eating it while Menu begged for leftovers... to which the only response was "learn to hunt for your own food you shameless mooch" accompannied by a swat in his direction. They pretty much only act violently toward food and around food. They don't like other demons that much though and tend to avoid them, not because of conflict, just because they are antisocial. Zeno was shunned in this society because he wasn't like any of them...he was shy, polite and social. This likened him more to the females of the race, who are also slighter and less irritable. Zeno's mom was a scatterbrain and Zeno's father resented his existence, because he was expecting a son to be like him in every way. But he socialized too much with his sisters and their interests, and didn't like killing fluffy animals and eating their guts raw. Therefore, Zeno wore the mark of shame when he was old enough to "know better" and was given the "pink loincloth of shame" to wear every day (he wasn't the only one who had to wear one of those though) After being abandoned though, his life only got worse, between fighting for survival and being taken from location to location as his bad luck moved him. Meeting Charby and Menu was the first good thing to happen to him in a long time, and he felt indebted to them. Tony soon joined them shortly afterwards and the two became fast friends. These first 4 residents know eachother the best and are most like family to eachother (there is definitely a design to who's better friends with who in the house, I'll probably get more into it soon) Charby is like the blanket friend to everyone, everyone considers him their pal. Menu is probably the closest to him of housemates though. Zeno and Tony got along the best over Zeno and Charby or Zeno and Menu. Save for the one time, they've rarely fought. Zeno only glared at Tony for trying to sneak a peek at Mye in the shower back in those days. Nobody besides Zeno, Zerlocke, Mye and Hexavier know the whole story about they day Zeno lost it and Mye was killed. Nobody but Tony knew about the jealousy-induced punching of Crispo, but even that seemed a bit warranted given Crispo's ill-fated introduction. Zeno obviously felt remorseful after that incident too. Tony passed off most of Zeno's recent cockiness to just plain rubbing in the fact that he has a pretty girlfriend and Tony doesn't, as if Zeno's putting down Tony made him feel more important.
As for Charby's inaction? Charby's more of an observer sometimes. He didn't hear what Zeno said, he just noticed that Zeno was talking to Tony and something seemed foreign about his aura, if you will. Charby did not feel the need to act at the moment. Zeno looked to be handling it on his own, and it didn't seem entirely malevolent from his POV. Charby's been known to make idle threats in the past as well (he threatened to torture information out of Tony and Zeno in another comic I didn't post, but before he could continue to say he was kidding they gave in) He knows that Tony can handle himself, he's seen him fight before and he knows the alp's powers. He knows that if Zeno gave him crap he'd just do his alp thing and Zeno would regret it. Zeno left the room cheerful and appeared to be going to his room...it all appeared completely innocent to him at the time. But now to the point: Charby was informed by Mye that the scythe may be making him irritable like this. Charby originally assumed it was posession. Having a magic weapon like Zeno, Charby could understand where he is coming from trying to control a "you" that isn't quite "yourself" if you get what I'm saying. But since this is a completely different weapon/species, Charby doesn't think it's quite the same. By all means he could have tailed Zeno to see what he was up to, but there's this bit of guilt he gets not trusting a good friend like that. Tony was the least likely to see it coming though, while he did hear about Zeno's mini-freakout from Mye, it kinda went over his head while talking to her because his mind was on other things at the time.He only thought Zeno was trying to intimidate him, he was half-expecting him to laugh it off and say "gotcha!" after he grabbed his arm, though Tony certainly wasn't in a joking mood. His newfound knowledge of alp nature came as a bit of a surprise as well, Zeno certainly was never the "study the enemy" type either.
So the points: Zeno: While not entirely stable anyway, Zeno tends to rush and rarely plans things, which tends to cause most of his own troubles. Zeno is smart, but conniving isn't in his nature. He's the mouse in the maze that gets the cheese, but not the mouse that sets traps in the other paths so the others can't get to the same bait(leaving more for him.)~~(__C"> <----(that's a mouse)
Tony: Sees everything yet notices nothing lately. He used to know everything about everyone's little quirks, but since the house is filling out, he's less interested in all the people and more in one "person". Daydreaming about Mye has made him lose his focus and become careless in his surroundings, letting his guard down that he'd always kept even around trusted friends.
Charby: Tends to go on faith in his friends. While he's aware of things happening, he has things in his mind burdening him as well and has spent much time stewing over those than even regarding any of his house friends as of late. Losing his 2 favorite human friends has led him to question the nature of friendship in the first place though, so he's decided not to bother with it right now. Charby wouldn't know the first part of helping a stricken Zeno find his old self anyway, and he'd sooner kill him by accident in an attempt to help. This is why Menu handles bat-duty, he can't hit as hard. Charby also puts too much faith in his friend's ability to defend themselves.
Erm...but make of it what you will, i'm really enjoying the discussion ^_^
|
|
|
Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Nov 2, 2005 12:00:44 GMT -5
Me, I'd just like to say how awesome it is that we actually get to interact with Amelius herself, and hear her opinions and views on the comic. We privileged few, we band of brothers... (Or sisters, as there are more girls here. I don't mind being classed as a girl) Anyways. It's just really neat from my angle, being a long-time comic and cartoon fan...
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 2, 2005 17:13:23 GMT -5
I dont want to be a sister.
Yeah, I used to be amazed at how I was able to converse with Amelius. Like speaking with a celebrity. But now I feel that I can converse with her as a more or less equal.
Anyway, im an incredibly paranoid and suspicious person. So if I were there, I think that I would definately have done something. Especially after he hit me in the head with a hammer.
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 2, 2005 19:45:11 GMT -5
Indeed. Personally, were I in onius's position, I would have likely been 'holding onto my hat' (Haha, yay for crappy puns) so to speak, having noticed he had been acting strangely, and knowing he had threatened me earlier in the day.
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 2, 2005 20:42:08 GMT -5
Yeah, you could rationalize that he was dazed after the hit, so he didnt make any immediate action, but he did have the ability to say a whole bunch of stuff to challenge Zeno and make him further enraged.
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 2, 2005 20:48:19 GMT -5
I guess... But then Zeno would probably 'splode his head.
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 2, 2005 20:55:16 GMT -5
No wait... I meant that Tony did say a bunch of stuff to further enrage Zeno... but he didnt do anything. I dont really think he had a chance. But he could've tried...
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 2, 2005 21:08:49 GMT -5
Ah... Sorry! Must have misread your message... I personally think he couldn't really have done anything... Without his hat, and weakened by the iron, I doubt he could have been of any use... Better to wait it out, untill someone would have come downstairs and seen him...
|
|
|
Post by silverwolf on Nov 3, 2005 18:21:41 GMT -5
How about if we're a band of 'siblings'. Is everyone okay with that?
He's in a pretty bad position right now though, isn't he? Arm damaged and blood poisoning from the iron, not to mention that he must be half blind. I think that Tony must've been in too much shock the whole time to be able to attack. Especially with Amy's point that he half expected that Zeno was kidding.
|
|
|
Post by DarkfireTaimatsu on Nov 3, 2005 19:46:47 GMT -5
Siblings is fine. =3 And I really like the drawings in this little saga... I still think that one panel would make an excellent piece for a trading card image...
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 3, 2005 23:21:04 GMT -5
I just meant that Tony had some time between when he got hit by the hammer and when Zeno nailed him down to the dresser. But he used that time to give Zeno further warning, when he might have done something.
Does anyone else think that Zeno has gotten taller and his hair has grown longer since the begining of the comic?
What do people think of Mye? Do you think that she fully remembers everything that happened when she was having those memory's surfaced? Does she even know what Zeno did to her?
And why didnt Tony do that alp thing when Charby turned evil? Surely it would have been a better use than turning Fay invisable.
Just food for discussion.
|
|
|
Post by silverwolf on Nov 4, 2005 18:08:17 GMT -5
Most of the characters seem to be growing taller and looking older as Amy's art style matures. For reference, Daray. No honestly, he's changed style a LOT.
And I've always liked Mye. She knows the limitations on her powers and abilities, she's smart, friendly and helpful. She also always tries to see the best in people, which makes her rather naive. She's a very believable character.
I think that Tony was trying to give Charby a chance to get back without resorting to drastic measures, also the staff is a physical object that creates a mental change, it wasn't Charby's doing, so there's probably little Tony could do. Not to mention, it's an elite weapon. We still don't know how he holds up against those, be he in Zeno's mind or not. If he defeatsthe sythe, he might use his power against the staff.
In reality, he probably just didn't think of it.
|
|
|
Post by Zolah on Nov 4, 2005 18:33:24 GMT -5
is anyone else geeting some sort of.. i dunno... sensation that Zeno is schizo? ( that was rigth word?)
|
|
|
Post by Üfy the Teddy Slayer. on Nov 4, 2005 18:49:28 GMT -5
Well schizo is slang for schizophrenic and is often misused. Schizophrenia is a blanket term covering lots of different manifestations of mental illness such as extreme paranoia, hearing voices and hallucinating, or some sort of personality disorder. I’m not sure if multiple personalities come under schizophrenia though, they may do. As far as I know, schizophrenics don’t do “crazy” things with no reason at all though.
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 4, 2005 18:55:45 GMT -5
Nah, schizophrenics show very different signs. Just 'cause hes crazy dosent make him schizo.
Im doing a project on schizophrenia in school right now and Zeno's showing direct opposites to many of the symptoms.
Tony seems to be a very non-violent and self sacrificing person. Which is very commendable. Especially when he has such powers. It is most probably one of his best characteristics, but he seems to have a very strong aversion to violence. Even when it would be logical.
I found it interesting that Tony appeared as he looked in the real world inside Zenos head, instead of how he wished to look. He appeared as Charby in Vicky's head. So wouldnt it be logical if he was just himself as he normally pictures himself. If he wasnt paying attention to how he looked?
Or is he really physically inside his head? That seems to be implied, what with the effects of the pendent and all. But thats not what I thought heads looked like from the inside.
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 5, 2005 14:10:19 GMT -5
I thought that was his spiritual mind scape, more than anything...
|
|
|
Post by silverwolf on Nov 5, 2005 14:13:42 GMT -5
insides of heads might look different to alps. ... I like scarecrow's answer.
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 5, 2005 16:38:00 GMT -5
Thanks! ^_^ I always figured it was more of his actuall mind, and not the inside of his head, as Alps are dream tormenters, and on a spiritual plane, the mind is the ever changing area where the dreams take place. I believe that how we see Tony in this 'mind scape' is actually a representation of his metaphysical self... And that the effects of the pendant are also more a spiritual attack then anything...
Perhaps Tonius's appearance in Zeno's mind is what he knows himself to look like, and that is also a reason he hasn't altered his appearance?
|
|
|
Post by Zolah on Nov 5, 2005 19:32:35 GMT -5
i thoiugth schizo is when you got multiplied personalitys.
I was guessing that he had some how a supressed demon inside him wich problebly has been lurking awhile.. if you think of it he has steped fourth slowly and now he has come forth. I have been playing a rp character with multiplied personalitys, first it started just with some temprament changes then clothes, personality... well, it just increased with time.
( i do write much when im tired... geez,)
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 5, 2005 20:09:14 GMT -5
But if its not the inside of Zeno's physical head. Then why cant Tony just do whatever he wants, without the use of the pendent? Can the pendent work so subtly as to destroy specific thoughts within ones mind? And wouldnt he revert to the way he normally visualizes himself once he got inside his head?
And fat lot of good taking a representation of his hat would do. What are those Zeno clones thinking? If hes in the mind and not the physical head, then shouldnt the powers of the hat and pendent still be in effect, even if they are taken from the representation of himself inside Zeno's mind? And why would he disapear before he went into Zeno's mind? Wouldnt his body still be on the outside?
And schizophrenia can be translated to mean "split personality" but its not what it is.
|
|
|
Post by Amelius on Nov 6, 2005 1:00:50 GMT -5
Tony went in with the intent of taking over Zeno's body, expecting him to be awake and fully cognizant of his actions, but instead it is like Zeno is "dreaming" This is making a confusing sort of fog of dreamscape that Tony isn't sure what to make of. He's used to getting into people's minds while they are asleep yes, but at that point they are vulnerable. And human. Tony's not so used to a demon's dreams at it is. And yes, Tony is completely inside Zeno's head, and his thoughts. this is where it is taking a bit of a surreal twist. A similar concept to Freddy Krueger, what he does to Zeno and vice versa inside the mind will effect him outside it. Zeno (or not Zeno) can fight back and possibly kill Tony in his mind, or trap him there forever. At this point Tony doesn't even really need the pendant either, but he thought he'd let it decide the fate of the mini-Zeno shades crawling on him. The pendant more or less "directed" the spikes that impaled them. Otherwise, yes Tony can manifest himself into any form he pleases. but he cannot heal himself, so whatever form he takes will still be wounded. even his clothing takes on to the transformation as well. The mist we saw when Zeno was freaking out was Tony going into his head physically (this is how they do it actually) but with Vicky, Charby didn't want him taking any advantages so he made him do it from the outside. I'd explain more concisely but a friend of mine is complaining to me so I better get going...
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 6, 2005 12:04:56 GMT -5
AhHA I was right ;D
|
|
|
Post by Scarecrow on Nov 6, 2005 15:22:46 GMT -5
*Applaudes*
|
|
|
Post by Rehiro on Nov 6, 2005 15:55:50 GMT -5
Thanks.
You'd think Mye would be a little more cautious about requesting to be left alone with insane people, especially since shes been assaulted three times because she was alone with insane people.
|
|