"The Clubhouse"

[Shippo_no_Neko]

... I would like to take the time to say: I have nothing against the moderators on this forum. Thank you.

*ahem*

I believe that The Clubhouse is unfair. Just getting that out of the way. On this forum, I believe that everyone should be equal. I think that often times, moderators do help, and they have very important responsibilities, but does that give them a right to have secrets and special priveledges that other members dont? I believe that this forum is turning into something like a communist government. The moderators control everything (intentionally or unintentionally, I don't know), they control what we post, what our fates as members will be, and now, where we can go on the forum. Us normal members are like the peasants, allowed to speak, but not much else.

I am one of three remaining members from the old days of the forum (Including Amelius). I do not like to excercise seniority, but I do have the most posts, and have been here the longest of all normal members. In this time, I have never been appointed a moderator. I am fine with that. I do admit, I was a little jealous when Ryodragon became a moderator at four posts, and her brother after her, and when EEN was crowned supreme ruler over the RP threads, and even a normal member like me, Zolah, was given mod rights. I'm not denying that. I have been fine with it, though, up to this point. The Clubhouse?! The Secret Society of Moderators?! What do they have that the rest of us normal members don't? So they can type in orange text, and delete spammers. It doesn't take anyone special to do that, They just have to have the head admin's trust.

There is not a doubt in my mind that not-so-nice posts about certain forum members exist there. Otherwise, why keep it secret? Why not set the category on "Moderators: post, Registered members: view?" Also, they have opportunities that us normal members don't ever get. Did us normal members have a chance to become moderators? Was there anything we could have done to earn that? No. Why, then, should appointed moderators get priveledges like a secret category? A fancy society?

I apreciate the jobs you do, but I think that having a category to yourselves is unfair. I have nothing against Ryodragon, Momo, Zolah, EEN, and certainly not Amelius, but I think that this truly is group exclusion.

I hope that I have not offended anyone...

--Shippo_no_Neko, Goddess of Last-posteyness

[PixelMage]

I see your point, but i don't totally agree with it.
I am relitively new here, so I have no right to say anything about the situation of you becoming a mod, but I do feel the need to say that I don't think "the clubhouse" is unfair. Moderators control the forums, it is their job and they are doing it well. They keep the boards tidy and clean for the general users, so they arn't filled with spam. A board with no rules and no-one to enforce them would be no fun at all.
The clubhouse is basically a place where they can discuss how the board should be run and things that they cannot discuss other places, it is probably easier than PMing eachother constantly about issues. It's not that they are hiding things from us, its just a way of running the board.

[Zolah]

Shippo, the forum was created for us moderators so we wouldnt have to use the PMing system and discus the matters without excluding another moderator just cause she/he isnt online. Or dont have msn, it isnt used to talk behind your backs.

Certain things is good to keep away from the public so they wont cloud our judgement if you understand, and it isnt just for moderators. Amelius is there also, do you think she would allow dirt talking? ( im tired i admit.. sorry for my english T_T )

and the secret society is just a name wich isnt to take too seriusly about, it is just a joke.

And Shippo, If you wanted so much to be a moderator ehy did you not ask? as you said yourself you are one of the oldest members and you didnt take the chance when its was available. besides, being a moderator isnt too nice job. youre always afraid too hurt someone or going to far or being too soft.

There, that is what i have to say.
I am kinda getting tired of these things coming at the same time as a big rock Y_Y

[Violet]

*sigh* can't we all just get along?

[magicklorelai]

Shippo, as my understanding has been, the "clubhouse" isn't about exclusive rights that other members don't have. It's about being able to talk to one another easily without overusing the PM system, which can get complicated and difficult to keep track off when you're discussing an important issue.

It became necessary when the mods were being flooded with PMs by both each other AND the forumgoers regarding the Rehiro issue. It's no more exclusive than the PM exchange they had before, they just now have an easy way to recall everything they've said and organize it.

Also, your assessment of a communist forum is...inaccurate. They don't "control" anything. They keep things peaceful and pleasant. I haven't seen a "control" out of them except to remind people, "Please stay on topic." Unless you're referring to the Rehiro banning, which he earned without a doubt in my mind. That's an entirely different matter.

[RyokoDragonez]

Shippo, I would like to start off by saying that "The Clubhouse" is a way of organizing our PM's (As a few people have already pointed out).

I would also like to mention that I did -nothing- to get Momo moderator status. He got that all on his own through being the tech support we so badly needed. Have we mentioned he's the guy who takes care of Amelius' computer problems? Once again -- I did nothing. If you want to see the PMs from when he got moderator status, he does have them saved.

Zolah got moderator status because she had experience elsewhere and I needed help in keeping things running smoothly (due to massive increase in membership).

I got moderator status due to the fact that I solved the Spammer issue (sort of...) at the time. I also have had extensive experience as both an administrator and a moderator on various forums. I know the command system (for the most part) and I also know how to moderate. Amelius did not have time to moderate, and thus when she discovered that I had a great amount of experience in moderation.

EEN was a moderator before me, and thus I have no idea. But I am certain it was valid as most things Amelius does are. And I am quite happy that EEN is a moderator. He moderates the section that no one else really wants to put foot in. Honestly, I run from that section. Screaming.

We take our jobs as moderators very seriously. Because I have had the most experience and am confidant in my english I have become the official spokesperson on most things.

Note: Momo is at my place at the moment, so this message is from the both of us.

---
Ryoko and Momo

[Daggertooth]

Everything Ryodragon, Zolah, and MagickLorelai said is absolutely true. In fact for most forums with a large enough staff a gMod Loungeh is created. A place where PMfs can be organized and private discussions and deliberation can ensue. It is a private place for all the background goings that we as forumgoers actually take for granted.

Of course I suppose it is possible to have a four or five way conversation over PM when trying to decide something serious for this forum. If it would make you feel better.

Daggertooth

[Stonestrike]

I agree with Shippo and I have some points of my own. Why do they get to decide what happens to the forum? What gives them the right to take away our free speach? How come they can break rules and get away with it? Why do they have power over us? Because they can delete some spam posts or fiddle around with the controls? Anyone can do that. At least I can do that. But I'm not a mod and I never ask to be one. Every member should have equal rights. I can't even post casualy anymore. The forum has changed and for the worse. I don't think they should keep anything like this secret. They aren't better then us in any way.

[Dundee]

Stone, it's just a forum. If our president was acting like that, we'd have every right to be concerned, but this isn't real life. The real main reason this forum is here is so that people can discuss the comic, not out-of-the-way discussions about who-wants-to-know. If you want completely free speech, go to a forum that's about that kind of stuff. I'm not asking you to abandon us, I'm just saying that there are lots of places other than here that can support you in your quest.

I'm sure the mods have their reasons, and while we can envy them and ponder what the heck they're talking about, we all know that they're discussing how to make the forum a better place.

[Flagg]

Hypothetical situation for you, Stonestrike.
A world without police. A world where everyone has entirely equal rights to do whatever they want. I've ranted quite a bit on that hypothetical world in the "Rules, Schmules" thread, so feel free to head over there to find my views. Or read this summary: It's a bad idea.

The Mods are in the posts they are in because (I assume) Amelius deemed them worthy. If you want to go about doubting Amelius' judgement, hey, go ahead. I'm not in a posistion to stop you, and I doubt if I'll be able to persuade you. But remember this, we're all here on this forum because we share at least one common bond. We all like CTV. Chances are that if we like it enough to become active here, then we should be able to respect its author's ability to choose people to maintain the kind of enviroment she wants to have for her fans.

I'm not 100% sure how the Mod choosing process went down, but I know that if Amelius wanted things differently, she would have them differently. If someone worthy of Mod-dom isn't a Mod, my guess would be because Amelius wants to save them the stress and worry that comes with the job, and instead let them enjoy the board in its purest form as a member.

[Stonestrike]

Have you noticed that the people that disagree on this are veterans? That's because the forum used to be a friendly casual environment. All put it in a few simple words. The mods ruined it. We had rules, and delt with them in a fair matter. Instead of the tyranny that is the forum we see today.

[Wolfy]

I don't think they have. I was here when the only other mod was EEN, and he never used his powers. I seriously think that the Mods have made it better. On one of the forums i used to be a part of, the Mods did nothing. Even when there were flame wars and serious insults(many of which were directed at me, though I've no idea why...I swear, one topic was created -just- to insult me. I know because I read it. And complained. Nothing was done, and I quit going to that forum.), nothing was done. They just let it be...(that forum has since shut down, and has moved to a new location...nearly every member of it was/is a member of my school.)

[Flagg]

Have you noticed that the people that disagree on this are veterans? That's because the forum used to be a friendly casual environment.

Genetic Fallacy - The attempt to endorse of disqualify a claim because of the origin or irrelevant history of the claim.

Every member should have equal rights.

Would part of those equal rights include having equally weighty opinions in discussions, Stonestrike? Or should veterans be more equal than others? (sorry, Animal Farm, hee hee)

[Stonestrike]

I'm not saying I deserve more power than others. I'm saying everyone should have the same amount of power. Also nobody proved me wrong on these.

I suppose I'll have to resort to pointing out all of the rules people have broken and gotten away with.

For instance Rehiro was accused of putting words in other peoples mouthes. You notice something? You are all imitating him.

Also because someone was found guilty you're allowed to flame him now?

He couldn't have ment everyone in the forum because only some people posted in that topic. Not everyone.

Ryo posted rehiro's private message. Since when can we do that? It's called private message for a reason.

Another thing, I checked the standards for PG-13. You are allowed to say the p-word. It is not PG-13 if we limit it more than it truly is.

[Flagg]

I have two things to say.

1, I have not done a great deal of research on the reasons for the verdict. The Mods have. Any answer I may give for those accusations would pale in comparison to the ones they may offer.

2, I believe that the original point of this thread was not Rehiro's verdict. The thread made for that discussion was locked due to the dissensions it was creating. I would much dislike the same to happen here, since that would turn Shippo's chances of getting her legitimate concern addressed any further very sour indeed.

[cockatrice]

This is mostly in responce to Stonestrike's comment. Although I fully support the 1st ammendment, we must also take into account the right to control your own property. While freedom of speech is perfectly acceptable on the internet as a whole (at least in my opinion; there are some who may disagree), that right does not extend to freedom of speech on another person's website. The moderators have been granted authority by Amelius, who owns this forum. The ethics of censorship may be still be discussed, but the rights to do so are an extension of property rights.

[Zolah]

This is a matter that isnt in focus anymore, so i lock this thread until further notice ^^