The "like" button

[Amelius]

Hey guys!

I saw a bit of discussion about the "like" button on DD (or TD?)
I'm not... super thrilled with it, since they kinda dropped the initial reason for it: a separate list from the top ten that calculates daily "like" votes. I thought this would be great for obscure comics to get noticed, but the "community" balked at another list that could help *somebody* in the top ten. the tall poppy syndrome there is disgusting... "Yeah I could use that feature to get popular, but then someone who is popular now might benefit from it too! Oh no! I want to look at dead comics that haven't updated in 6 years, rather than allow the possibility of popular comics getting more attention that I will eventually benefit from anyway! Bring back Quail's Random list, WHIIIIIINE!" *edit* yes I am modifying here to let you know I don't want to be in two top lists either, just the attitude that people had was that it's better for their own comics to suffer than to allow the comics that were already popular the chance to become possibly more popular, despite the fact that the admins said it wouldn't be like that since not all of the popular comics update daily anyway. they even said comics like mine *might* be the only one that gets in two lists, but of course i know I don't deserve that, and neither did the folks in the forum think I deserve it!)

But anyway, I might have to do something to get a "like" campaign going, if not for CTV but some other comics that still remain. I'm not a big popularity fan, but I noticed that while the comics in the top ten are frozen to the default that they had set for the preview site (it doesn't necessarily reflect the ratings from before the site switched over, I can tell you that much. I was still at #3 either way however, but that's no big deal to me!)
the LIKE button however, is actively rating comics in the browse comics area. And it looks like porn is winning out over comics I think are even better than mine! I don't want to be a big prude and complain about people liking porn, but we don't need the site looking like SmackJeeves 2, especially with some of the best comics leaving the site over the many issues we're dealing with.
I don't want to say that the guy doesn't deserve his popularity or anything, or that his comic sucks (I wouldn't know, I don't look at porn) I'm just saying something else should be popping up first in the comic browse that won't get some kid in trouble with their parents or block DD from work and school servers.

So yeah...I guess I'm a little dismayed that I'm not as well regarded as something filthy and offensive! Is it alright for me to be insulted?
Especially 'cuz he kinda made a rude comment about me on some other person's comic. I'm not SUPER offended by it, but I'm a little bitter to say the least. The trolls at comic fury think the success of the porn is, to quote, "triumphant". Argh... I dunno what to do.

Should I do some sort of incentive thing? I don't want to be a sellout for "likes" but I'd like to find a candidate at least to hold up and get people to press the like button on it. I'd nominate Cwen since I think it stands a good chance, but it has been slow to get back on schedule yet. Any ideas, friends?

[jetylefr]

Well I also Love reading finished and dead comics.

If you want a suggestion for a comic that deserves a spot on the front page, "InstaDinner" is really good.

[Waker]

Ok, so let me see if I've got this right. The Duck has introduced a "Like" button that showcases the top ten votes. Currently one of the top comics is pornographic (not sure which one since I don't read them) and you are afraid that this will garner negative attention for The Duck.
I don't see any way to really fix the problem. I mean, even if Charby and Cwen were both in the top ten, the only way people wouldn't see the offending comic was if the other eight slots were occupied by other comics.

[the1truesushiboy]

Well, the like button is, to me, not a big deal, altogether. I just click the button if I like it. If it contributes to ranking, that's good. If it's just there to tally the votes, why not add in my vote? But the fact that something so indecent is so readily placed at the top is aggravating, to say the least. Personally, I think you have every right to be insulted by it, but I'll spare you my qualms on the matter. As for the 'incentive thing', I'm not entirely sure what you're asking or proposing. Is it to re-rank the comic browsing section, so that more deserving comics will get noticed?

As an addendum, I'd like to say my third favorite webcomic ever is a dead one. Never finished and completely abandoned, but it was still incredible, for what was there.

[Amelius]

jetylefr: Finished and dead comics make up about 80% of my favorites list, I visit them every so often for the good memories, and it makes me melancholy! But yeah, I do too, but it's not the best thing to display on the front page to new readers. When so many comics aren't updating or don't even have a thumbnail, it makes the site look like a comic graveyard.

Yeah, Insta-Dinner is a really cute comic, I'll put that one up for consideration! I think it's a contender for number 1, I love the marker coloring and expressions. However I feel like it's a longshot because it's mirrored on 2 other sites with better reputations...

Waker: Ah, sorry if I came off in a bad light there... having a not-so-good day.

It's not the top ten, but the comic's browse system with 25 comics, it now displays all comics in order of "most likes", until you go to the next page and it's in frustrating alphabetical/numerical order!

I'm not afraid of the negative attention DD could get, I'm woefully aware of the negative attention it does get already! DD has the reputation of a webcomic's gutter, and it does reflect badly on comics like mine due to "guilt by association". You should have seen the nasty things people were saying about another popular comic just because it was right next to the porn. Completely innocent comics get dragged through the mud because of this.

Sadly, people make connections when they see that, stupid people yes, but they do. I'm not saying this will happen, I'm saying it has happened already!

I don't want to be DD's "face", I don't think I deserve that. I really don't feel like I'm DD's best.
But I do want fill those slots with comics that are a good representation of DD. Otherwise, people will just come for the porn, find more porn, Like the heck out of it, and soon the top is fetish paradise, and most likely I'm still stuck in amongst them, or else I get pushed to the bottom with the rest of the non-porn.

7 out of 25 of the comics on the first page of "browse" are flat-out porn, and the rest are really good comics like Elspeth and Culture Shock, quality comics that don't rely on shock value and graphic sex to get an audience.

But filling the other slots is what I intend to do, though I just want a good candidate to push over the top first, someone that represents DD. I'm not talking about something "wholesome and goodie-goodie" I mean something that has good art and writing, something that brings more than horndogs to the site.

the1truesushiboy: haha, I was about to post and you slipped in just before!

I'm just proposing something to get people to notice some of the other comics on the site that aren't shock value stuff. I guess I have a thing against thumbnails with boobs staring at me like a pair of googly eyes
I don't want to dictate who is "deserving" because even the porn deserves an equal chance to succeed! I just personally don't think it should be the first thing people see on DD is all.

The incentive thing was kind of a dead thought about "hey I'll update this comic or make a poster for every blah blah likes" but then I thought that might kinda be... stupid or something. I dunno. I would find it flattering to be the most liked, but i admit I don't have nearly the self-confidence to want to make people vote for me. As much as I love my comic, I dunno... I have self esteem issues!

More like I'd do something as a bonus if people go "like -up" the recommended comic of the week or something. Though I would hope other comics will take up the torch and do these things for themselves. If Purgatory Tower were still updating, that comic would absolutely own the top tier again.

By the way, what was that comic you liked? I am curious now

[Amelius]

I'm going to double post 'cuz it's my forum and I can do what i want, haha!

I just want to say I don't want to alienate anyone because I'm such a prude. I don't judge anyone for liking what they like! I don't want to make it a crusade of "comics I like get popular" but something to get the really good stuff some attention. I'll admit, there are comics on DD that are fantastic that I just simply didn't get into because they appeal to a different demographic. Those are comics I feel should represent DD, not just the things I happen to find enjoyable.


*edit* and I'm trying to be more active here once again, I feel terrible that my first post in months is me complaining! You'll see more than my bad side though I promise, guys

And I didn't mean to sound negative about dead comics, I just feel like there should be a focus on the comics that are updating and not on ones that posted 10 page previews and then redirect you to the author's new site. I'm not saying they ought to be booted off either, but the Quail's random should be a browse option, not something on the main page. The Like system was shaping up to be like DD's old vote system minus the negative votes. I would have liked to launch campaigns, so I'm kinda doing that now!

[Odin]

Unfortunately I have no idea's eventually me jety and sushi will be getting around to actualy reviewing comics but atm we're still setting up our intro.

actually i'm wrong I do have an idea. when you post pages you can do shoutouts to random comics you want to share with the community. like it or not you are rather popular and what you say could have tremendous impact on the comminity of TD at large.

[Waker]

No Amelius! Stop double posting, the power will go to your head!
Odin does have a point with the shout outs for other comics. Usually when I want to find a new comic I look to the authors of my currently read comics and see who they suggest, preferably in the form of a friends link section for ease of navigation. I'd suggest a consortium of comics to advertise for each other and help get promising beginners in the spotlight.

[the1truesushiboy]

Ah, the comic was RPG World. Though it seems it's no longer viewable, as the pages won't load on the site. The author took down the pages once before, so it's probably the same thing, which is disappointing. It was a good combination between ridiculous humor and genuine storytelling, being a parody of popular RPGs. And, of course, there was a progression of artistic skill, which is something I always love to see in webcomics. :]

Also, I think Odin's shout out idea would probably work best, provided you make it known what the intention is to provide a better representation of DD's comics. I'm not sure how well offering incentives would work for this endeavor, but it might.

[Amelius]

Mwhahaha! *thunder crackles* don't worry I'll try to keep doublebubble posting down, I was just really nervous bringing this up. I dunno why, but I was afraid that I was gonna get a lot of heat over this!

I dunno why, but my nerves cause me to over-react and just spam stuff out and then I'm like "I should say this or they will think this!" so I spent a good deal of time modifying my thoughts, going back and adding things, I know in the end it makes it a confusing jumble.

I guess past experiences have left me confused on what to do, because I've had people tell me to "calm down" when I'm being perfectly calm (but I've noticed that's a trend lately amongst people on forums who disagree, they tell someone who's being perfectly respectful to calm down, perhaps to make it appear to the rest of the posters that this person is being obnoxiously histrionic? Either way, I'm not fond of such tactics!)

Linking comics is definitely something I plan to do, though I would like to have some sort of thing to go along with it, unfortunately I suck at fan art (because I spend forever on it) and have mostly enjoyed sending that out in private either way. If the site had the functionality for it, I would get a comic ring going like we had on the old, old Drunk Duck!

Hey, here's an example of what I'm talking about: Old DD snapshot on Wayback Machine and the buttons on the webring still work even if the site is long gone and the comics themselves don't load!

[nightreflection]

Well, I could suggest a whole new rating system. I mean, heck, you've got computers, I can think of three great ideas off the top of my head, but would anyone listen?

If you're looking to do things yourself, I recommend doing the fan art angle, but, limit the amount of detail, background and colour you use just to force it to be quick. They style won't mimic theirs or yours, but that's part of the idea of fanart.

I'm thinking major features only, mono-chromatic colouring (no shading) and only simple, undetailed backgrounds, if any. I can recommend a few comics if you want an idea of what I mean.

Something like the footnote here:

www.drunkduck.com/Charby_the_Vampirate/5271726/

Or better, the one of Charby about to make duck for dinner, which I couldn't find.

also, STOP SELLING YOURSELF SHORT!

This is one of the best comics on the internet. Other than slow updates, which is the price you pay for doing a comic for quality instead of immediate entertainment value, there is very little that comes close to your comic.

Name me one comic you think is better, seriously and I will shred it for you. You are giving too much credit to other comics and not being objective. I'm not saying you're a comic god that none can touch, but you are always looking down on yourself. You've worked hard to get here, you're not trying to ram your ego down people's throats, but please, do have a bit of self confidence.

Other than Pinky TA, I don't think I've seen anything graphically superior on the duck, and going through my regular check list, there is one, just one of about 50 comics, heck knows how many did not make it onto the list, that I consider possibly on par with your work (I haven't looked too closely), and that's graphically, it's a sci-fi with no humor.

*Stomps off*

Seriously, name one comic that you think is better, I promise, it's not. ;D

Back to the like button. I understand computers, if they want a solution, get someone to PQ me and I'll give them options. I'm not volunteering on the forums because my experience is most IT people just want to ram their opinion down your throat, and I'm not wasting my time with that.

Take consolation that, on any system, there will always be 'shock winners' because, like it or not, some people cheat. I bet with a lot of the top comics, the likes are done by dummy accounts and such. I'm not pointing fingers, but it happens, and we both know people have gone there before.

[Amelius]

Awww, nightreflection! You're sweet I don't think I can name a comic right now, at least that's updating, especially 'cuz I wouldn't wanna see it shredded either. I don't think my comic is awful if you're worried though, I just know it's not exactly an award-winner on DD except for the "oh crap, we snubbed CTV better make up an award so the fans don't cause a crapstorm!" award I got a couple years back! Sadly, I think the DD awards are dead in the water with all the organizers having fled to other comic sites. I was gonna actually bother to campaign this year!

[the1truesushiboy]

Eheh. You know, I have the same issue with posting messages. I spend an unusual amount of time considering what they mean, so I can convey things with the right tone I want to. And somehow, I am still misunderstood more often than I'd like. :I Oh well.

Anyway, I agree with NightReflection. You really don't give yourself the credit you deserve. Now I know you know you're good, but it's possible you don't realize, just exactly, how good... Or maybe you're just being too humble. But of the hundred-something webcomics I enjoy, CTV is one of... maybe five webcomics I would consider myself genuinely 'enthusiastic' about. Really, I've got a slew of reasons why I personally consider it my favorite, but regardless, your ability and fanbase really speaks for itself. You are popular and people love your work for a reason, so no need for self doubt. ;D

[Waker]

Like any of the forum goers here are gonna get upset by you posting stuff like this. I'm fairly certain all of us are here because we're fans.

Linking comics is definitely something I plan to do, though I would like to have some sort of thing to go along with it, unfortunately I suck at fan art (because I spend forever on it) and have mostly enjoyed sending that out in private either way.

A little confused by this bit here. Did you mean you want to send fan art to the comics you're linking to?
Anyways, even though I think several other posts have pounded this point home, I'll hop on the bandwagon and give you some ancient Chadnese wisdom, "People are often their own worst critic, either giving themselves too much credit or too little."

[nightreflection]

I think the idea with fan art for other comics is it gives Amelius an excuse to plug (link) a comic in her comments without looking like she's going on a promotion crusade. Plus, most of the readers will look at the fan art, and some may get interested in the comic being promoted - read it, 'like' it, support it.

Also, I don't mean shredded as in made to look awful, but you seem to have a habit of glossing over other comics. For one, take a long hard look at how much background, and how detailed it is in those older comics before elevating them so much.

[jetylefr]

All I know is that people are seen as themselves only when on the internet. They give themselves names that are nonsense and attach images to themselves instead of the way they really look. When they do this, they feel they are free to explore what they would not in public, they feel they can shirk responsibilities because no one can really penalize them, and many of them think they're funnier that way.
These are the causes for DD losing face in the eyes of the community. Because much of the community, sadly, is full of these kinds of people.
Doing beneficial things like fan art is a wonderful and effective way to raise spirits and positivity! I approve of the idea.

I do love the fact that you're modest Amy, but you still have got to realize you are crazy crazy talented! There's absolutely no way you could do badly at fan-art!