Post by Daggertooth on Apr 18, 2006 21:53:27 GMT -5
Alright, I think there are some misunderstandings as to what a moderator is and their responsibilities, the proper conduct with them, and our abilities as community members on this site. I would like to address them, Examples are taken elsewhere, Any and all references to individuals on this actual forum is coincidental with the exception of me mentioning Amelius by name a few times and I mention myself once. I do think this is important enough not to simply be skimmed over. It will be a bit long, and for that I apologize.
What do you mean Hierarchy?
First, there is a Hierarchy on these forums. Forum members sometimes forget this and try to envision a kind of utopian democracy where everything has due process or that public opinion makes a huge difference or that everyone is equal. Thatfs simply not the case in any forum I have ever visited. In fact that mentality would breed chaos if ever tried. Herefs the most common Hierarchy I am familiar with.
-Administrator
-Global Moderators
-Moderators
Community members
Newbie
Lurker
Note that any reference to an Administration Team is a reference to the top three.
Administrators: AKA Amelius: Usually one or two individuals who actually own or run the site. They hold all the power, they have all the cards. If you donft like them then ignore them or leave. They create the rules and implement them. If the forums become to large for an administrator to handle by themselves they will recruit others to help. These are hand picked by the administrator and is a critical decision in the development of a forum. I have seen entire forums collapse do to administrators not assigning moderator duties properly.
Global Moderators: They typically moderate every forum on a site or section and have some administrator powers. They also take care of concerns from Moderators. To some extent I believe that it can be argued that all our moderators are in actuality Global Moderators.
Moderators: Individuals who enforce the rules and content of their respective forums. It is their responsibility to ensure that every post in their section is within the guidelines specified by the administrator, that the threads are not repetitive, that therefs no spam, and to field any complaints/compliments that may come their way. They also hand down punishments. They are the face of authority on these forums and are a direct liaison between the administrator and community. In our forums they actually speak for Amelius.
Community Members: These are typically the gregulars.h Contrary to popular belief, post count does not matter. Post Counts have often been looked down as a tool that instigates superiority complexes among Community Members and encouragement to spam. They are fun, but much like exalting, ultimately irrelevant and potentially damaging. In our forum anyone who spends a week active in the ggames and stuffh thread will easily garner 500 posts.
Newbies: Their new. In larger forums these are the ones who get the most warnings cause they donft read the rules. It is polite to gradually enter a forum and not just post on every available thread as if everyone knows you. They are testing the waters, they might stay, they might not.
Lurker: We do have a lot of them. Hard to say exactly where they fit in the scheme of things as some can be long time members. They are typically not interested in being part of the community.
So what does a Moderator Do?
Well I said they ensure the posts follow the rules. What does that mean? It means that in their specific forum they read geveryh post in geveryh thread to make sure geveryh member stays on topic, doesnft Flame, Troll, Spam, and go above a PG 13 rating. Sometimes the lines are blurred and closer examination is required. Some posts are long, some topics may be perceived as boring, and sometimes posting frenzies ensue which makes a gloth of text for a moderator to read. Keep in mind they are not reading for their enjoyment, they are reading with a critical eye, which can be a strain mentally if done for several pages on topics you could care less about. (And a strain physically if done for several days at the expense of food, sleep, and outdoor activities).
So how do they do this? Well it typically means they have to create their own posts telling the general public what they have done wrong. Many places have the moderators actually edit the offenders posts, correcting any offending material. They then record that information of who got warned and why in a place specifically for moderation. In our forums it is called the gclubhouse.h After all that, a PM to the offender is often sent out to alert them of the fact. In case they do not return to the thread or donft check back on the moderator edited post. Editing other posts, inserting their own comments, sending out individual PM's, and recording verbal warnings as well as direct warning can be a time consuming endeavor in and of itself. There are a lot of posts that go on in a day and only four moderators.
They also deal with Complaints which in and of itself is a headache inducing phenomenon. Anyone ever work at a complaints department? Ifll say more below under gso you have to deal with a mod.h
It is important to remember that a Moderator position is a volunteer position. They do this with no pay. It is most often thankless job filled with headache and frusteration with lots of dealings behind the scenes and public actions which nobody has any knowledge of. It takes a lot of dedication to adequately moderate a forum, its not the most entertaining of positions either, few people realize this.
So you have to deal with a Moderator
The Moderators are not unapproachable. They are people too and will listen to what you have to say, to a point. When dealing with a moderator it is best to be as polite as possible, not only are to talking to one of authority but you are dealing with an extension of the administrator. Itfs more a kin to talking to a police officer whofs been appointed directly by the president of the USA. (You will need to Assume the President is a person you respect for this to work)
They listen to what you say to a point. Now what is that point? Well, the moderator is more than willing to hear your complaint the first time, a little less willing to hear it the third time, a bit disgruntled the fourth time, and pretty much pissed after the fifth time until they ban you. Now you can be as polite as possible when addressing a moderator like this, they will still react poorly to being badgered, especially if multiple people are badgering them over the same topic. Here is an example:
Well, at the risk of a double post warning... I'd like to show all of you why I'm tired of MTG and, for that matter, Wizards in general. I was banned from MTGO for "Spamming." This is most of the conversation, after I'd logged into a friend's account (keep in mind the times things were written and the intervals between):
5:38 Adept_Vision: Sorry but we cannot discuss the actions we take with other users,
only those who are involved. Thanks for understanding.
5:38 DarkJester666: But I am involved...
5:38 Adept_Vision: This isn't the account involved
5:39 DarkJester666: Well, its not like I can log in and talk about it, can I?
5:39 Adept_Vision: That is why you have to use the email
5:39 DarkJester666: You can obviously see the events that occured... so what
happened? And I did call, and I did email.
5:40 DarkJester666: I would like live help.
5:40 DarkJester666: This is the closet I have.
5:40 DarkJester666: *closetst.
5:40 Adept_Vision: I am sorry I am unable to provide the help you are requesting
5:40 DarkJester666: You can't scroll the chat box at all?
5:46 DarkJester666: Well...
5:46 Adept_Vision: I'm sorry, no I can't discuss it wirh you
5:47 DarkJester666: That's a cop-out. You know darn well you can see that I did
nothing wrong.
5:47 DarkJester666: I'm trying to solve this correctly.
5:48 DarkJester666: But two business days on a Friday? Not fair, sir.
5:48 Adept_Vision: You will have to wait for the email to be replied too... That is the
only way
5:48 DarkJester666: How hard is it for you to look at the chat log and just give me an
answer?
5:48 DarkJester666: I AM Parabol.
5:49 Adept_Vision: I can't discuss that sort of thing, except to the account in question
5:51 DarkJester666: Yeah... so I can wait 24 hours and bring it up again... then another
ban ensues. Nice.
5:52 DarkJester666: This isn't fair. C'mon, man. You are a player too... just look at the
chat log and give me an answer.
5:52 DarkJester666: Screw the Adept thing... I won't tell.
5:53 Adept_Vision: I am sorry, I am unable to do that
5:53 DarkJester666: Why? You know you can scroll the chat box up.
5:53 DarkJester666: You're a witness.
6:00 DarkJester666: Well, I guess it was about the non-Wizards URL... which is highly
unfair. You warnded me and another Adept bans me? That's cruel and unfair. I have
sent a reply email addresing this.
6:03 DarkJester666: Honestly... you have to realize how unfair that is.
6:08 DarkJester666: By the way, Musprime is now logged out. Nice evasive action.
6:08 Adept_Vision: If you were pleased, (or not pleased) with an adept, please visit
wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=434
. Copy the form then click "E-mail Us". (You'll need to create an account if you haven't
already). Select the Topics "Game/Product Question", "Magic: The Gathering Online",
"Magic Conduct/Community". Paste and finish the form that you copied.
6:09 DarkJester666: I've done that. I'm just wondering why two Adepts have taken
tewo measures.
6:10 DarkJester666: He's done this before, you know.
6:11 Adept_Vision: If you sent in a complaint, then I am sure Wizards has a record of it
6:12 DarkJester666: I didn't then. I did talk to Adept Gnome about it though.
6:13 DarkJester666: Look, the non-Wizards URL was a mistake from non-game IMs.
You warned me, I told you why and appologized. Another Apeot (Musprime) bans me...
What the heck!!!
6:14 Adept_Vision: I am sure wizards will explain when they reply back to you... I can't
discuss it
6:14 DarkJester666: You should... as a fellow gamer you should see how unfair this is.
6:17 DarkJester666: So, what I'm asking is you go ahead and send an email saying
that you warned me... and I shouldn't have been banned by another Adept. Am I right?
6:19 Adept_Vision: I don't understand that statenent, and I honestly can't discuss the
actions taken
6:19 Adept_Vision: Sorry
6:19 DarkJester666: You warned me... and another Adept (Musprime) bans me???
6:19 DarkJester666: At least back me up, man.
6:23 DarkJester666: Do't feed me any "macros" talk to me as a player...
6:24 DarkJester666: How unfair is this? And I can't do anything about it, can I?
6:24 DarkJester666: Not immediatly anyway.
6:24 Adept_Vision: Only wait for the email I'm afraid
6:24 DarkJester666: Yeah... I'm sure thay care.
6:25 Adept_Vision: There isn't anything you (or I) can do other then that
6:25 DarkJester666: One person doesn't matter.
6:25 DarkJester666: Also... banning me for seven (7) days???
6:26 DarkJester666: Cripes, man! What the heck!!!
6:26 DarkJester666: You know just as well as I do this is BS.
6:27 Adept_Vision: I can understand your frustration, and I am sorry...but there is really
nothing I can do
6:28 DarkJester666: Yeah... I'll bet you can't talk to anyone about this. Good ol'
Musprime gets to ban me anytime he sees me and I'm screwed because of "red tape."
6:31 DarkJester666: I understand you're inabilty to lift the ban... but at least back me
up. You did warn me about the (mistaken) altercation, correct?
6:33 Adept_Vision: I can't discuss my actions except to that account
6:34 DarkJester666: Oh of course not... give me no recourse... how nice and fair.
6:34 DarkJester666: You know dam well what happened, but do NOTHING to help?
Ugh, like talking to a robot. So, that's that. I'm tired of Wizards, tired of companies that care not about the consumer, but about the money the product generates.
In case youfre not getting from my example what I want I will ask this. How many times did the person of authority have to tell the affected individual that he couldnft do anything? How patient does a moderator need to be. A Community member may have a million justifications for their actions and just as much reasoning why they shouldnft be punished but that doesnft matter, continually goading the moderator results in banning and should require banning. No Moderator should have to put up with continuous demands over a subject they have already made a decision on. You can ask a moderator to change their mind but you canft make them and trying to will result in headaches for them and banning for you.
Okay, so now youfre all ready to be polite, you have your argument carefully typed up and you are confident that you have a case. Whatfs the best avenue to approach a moderator? Private Message (PM). The moderators are real good at responding to a PM and have no qualms with a behind the scene chat on a ruling, as long as it doesnft digress to a pleading and badgering on the individuals side. They moderators can agree with you and can change their mind, but they donft have to no matter how unfair you think it is. Once the Moderator makes their decision known it is best to stop. Also, be sure to send the PM to the Correct Moderator. It does you little good to send a complaint to the RPG Moderator when the problem occurred in the General Board.
Thatfs the best waycnow here are some major gDo Notfsh
Do NotcInsult a moderator or otherwise be rude to them. They are the authority and are an extension of Amelius. Doing so is typically a warnable offence.
Do NotcPublicly disagree with a moderator on their ruling. I canft stress this one enough. This is possibly one of the gravest insults anyone can do to a moderator and typically results in an instant warning, suspension, and or ban. No matter how polite and loving you are this is very rude, a deep and personal insult, its insubordination and does nothing for your cause. You will never resolve anything this way.
Do NotcContinually argue that your case is justifiable and that you are being repressed. Fight the powercwhatever. This is akin to badgering and is very annoying to the moderating staff. Itfs also typically the most common complaint PM they receive, so moderators who have been moderating for a while are usually Not receptive to it and may react harsher than you expect and think you disserve.
Do NotcTry to incite mass insubordination either through PM or Publicly. We are guests here, the administration team is hand picked by the administrator herself. If you have enough problems that you wish to incite some public rebellion then every participating member should be warned, suspended, and or banned. I am talking about threads like this: g forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=36467&highlight=Moderators g Even if you feel your justified and willing to take the warnings it is not necessarily and rarely ever productive. In a community as small as our own it is akin to a slap in the face at our administrator.
So now we live in a communistic regime?
Not really, you see a communist regime is based on the principal where everyone is equal and there are no class differences. I have already listed a hierarchy thus demonstrating that this is not a communistic regime. A more accurate analogy would be to compare a forum community as a dictatorship with responsibilities delegated to local lords. If you wish to rally against the stigma of a dictatorship make sure your e-mail is polite when you tell Amelius off. Of course sometimes the community simply wants to shout out their grievances.
To mediate this sometimes a gspeak your mindh forum is created for specific rulings handed down by the moderators. Often that simply becomes a headache due to getting flooded by gwhy was my post deleted,h gwhy was I banned,h and a common theme of degrading into flame. Usually the answer is self explanatory to all except the individual and maybe a few friends. Sometimes it is nice to have a simple reason explained on a ruling, but too often the banned individual (if banning is the case) will create multiple accounts just to complain. Which in itself is typically a warnable offence.
So you think the moderators are unfair.
Well it does happen. Sometimes Moderating duties get neglected and warnable offences seep through the cracks. Moderating responsibilities are a constant and the moderators do have lives outside the forums. If there is a post you question and wander why it hasnft been addressed the best thing to do is report it. Many forums have a greporth button under the post that is similar to the gquoteh button to alert moderators and allow the community some form of policing itself. You can always cite the name, thread, and post number in a PM if it really bothers you. If the moderators decide to leave it after that then that is their call.
Now what if you think moderators are treating Individual A different from Individual B. Well most often this is a case where one has a history with the moderators, usually negative, which has increased the ire of the moderators. No matter who you are you do not know everything behind the scenes and assuming such is foolish. The moderators will try their best to be impartial, but thatfs hard to do if someone is a repeat offender and badgering them continuously. The same goes with offending posts, a polite PM explaining why two posts are similar can go along way.
If you still have a grievance then it is possible to PM the Administrator. Know that they will most likely review the case and side with the Moderator, they were hand picked after all. Whatever behind the scene conclusion they make is their business.
So what about that clubhouse and how can I join?
Trust me friend, you donft want to. Itfs a masochistic club where they moderators continually torture themselves with discussion and deliberation. It is where they record verbal warning, and direct warnings. It is where PMfs of individuals that require a ruling are reviewed by the entire staff. It is a place of work as much behind the scenes as anything else. It is the office where our law enforcement have to deal with the nitty gritty and is never a fun place. (except for their keg parties) What they say there is none of your business and trying to assume what they say is very foolish.
So you want to be a Moderator
Still?!?
Your sick you know thatc.
So you think Ifm longwinded
And it took you how long to figure that out? I mean look at my posts in the goh my godh thread. A freaking book! Ifd shudder to think the moderators, let alone anyone, forced themselves to read through all that.
On a personal note: I have visited and spent a lot of time on various forums. I was involved in a very sad breakdown of an entire site that had thousands of active community members. I have seen moderators so lax that they never did their duties and their respective forums fell to chaos and I have seen moderators so vulgar as to ban anyone that looked at them crosseyed. I find the administration team on this site very professional in their duties and responsibilities. They take their appointed position very seriously and try to handle everything as justly and organized manner. Too often Moderators get down for doing their duty and hearing nothing but complaints. I think we as a community need to show our appreciation and thank them for everything they have done and their patience in dealing with us.
Daggertooth
Note: I may edit this if I think of things to add.
What do you mean Hierarchy?
First, there is a Hierarchy on these forums. Forum members sometimes forget this and try to envision a kind of utopian democracy where everything has due process or that public opinion makes a huge difference or that everyone is equal. Thatfs simply not the case in any forum I have ever visited. In fact that mentality would breed chaos if ever tried. Herefs the most common Hierarchy I am familiar with.
-Administrator
-Global Moderators
-Moderators
Community members
Newbie
Lurker
Note that any reference to an Administration Team is a reference to the top three.
Administrators: AKA Amelius: Usually one or two individuals who actually own or run the site. They hold all the power, they have all the cards. If you donft like them then ignore them or leave. They create the rules and implement them. If the forums become to large for an administrator to handle by themselves they will recruit others to help. These are hand picked by the administrator and is a critical decision in the development of a forum. I have seen entire forums collapse do to administrators not assigning moderator duties properly.
Global Moderators: They typically moderate every forum on a site or section and have some administrator powers. They also take care of concerns from Moderators. To some extent I believe that it can be argued that all our moderators are in actuality Global Moderators.
Moderators: Individuals who enforce the rules and content of their respective forums. It is their responsibility to ensure that every post in their section is within the guidelines specified by the administrator, that the threads are not repetitive, that therefs no spam, and to field any complaints/compliments that may come their way. They also hand down punishments. They are the face of authority on these forums and are a direct liaison between the administrator and community. In our forums they actually speak for Amelius.
Community Members: These are typically the gregulars.h Contrary to popular belief, post count does not matter. Post Counts have often been looked down as a tool that instigates superiority complexes among Community Members and encouragement to spam. They are fun, but much like exalting, ultimately irrelevant and potentially damaging. In our forum anyone who spends a week active in the ggames and stuffh thread will easily garner 500 posts.
Newbies: Their new. In larger forums these are the ones who get the most warnings cause they donft read the rules. It is polite to gradually enter a forum and not just post on every available thread as if everyone knows you. They are testing the waters, they might stay, they might not.
Lurker: We do have a lot of them. Hard to say exactly where they fit in the scheme of things as some can be long time members. They are typically not interested in being part of the community.
So what does a Moderator Do?
Well I said they ensure the posts follow the rules. What does that mean? It means that in their specific forum they read geveryh post in geveryh thread to make sure geveryh member stays on topic, doesnft Flame, Troll, Spam, and go above a PG 13 rating. Sometimes the lines are blurred and closer examination is required. Some posts are long, some topics may be perceived as boring, and sometimes posting frenzies ensue which makes a gloth of text for a moderator to read. Keep in mind they are not reading for their enjoyment, they are reading with a critical eye, which can be a strain mentally if done for several pages on topics you could care less about. (And a strain physically if done for several days at the expense of food, sleep, and outdoor activities).
So how do they do this? Well it typically means they have to create their own posts telling the general public what they have done wrong. Many places have the moderators actually edit the offenders posts, correcting any offending material. They then record that information of who got warned and why in a place specifically for moderation. In our forums it is called the gclubhouse.h After all that, a PM to the offender is often sent out to alert them of the fact. In case they do not return to the thread or donft check back on the moderator edited post. Editing other posts, inserting their own comments, sending out individual PM's, and recording verbal warnings as well as direct warning can be a time consuming endeavor in and of itself. There are a lot of posts that go on in a day and only four moderators.
They also deal with Complaints which in and of itself is a headache inducing phenomenon. Anyone ever work at a complaints department? Ifll say more below under gso you have to deal with a mod.h
It is important to remember that a Moderator position is a volunteer position. They do this with no pay. It is most often thankless job filled with headache and frusteration with lots of dealings behind the scenes and public actions which nobody has any knowledge of. It takes a lot of dedication to adequately moderate a forum, its not the most entertaining of positions either, few people realize this.
So you have to deal with a Moderator
The Moderators are not unapproachable. They are people too and will listen to what you have to say, to a point. When dealing with a moderator it is best to be as polite as possible, not only are to talking to one of authority but you are dealing with an extension of the administrator. Itfs more a kin to talking to a police officer whofs been appointed directly by the president of the USA. (You will need to Assume the President is a person you respect for this to work)
They listen to what you say to a point. Now what is that point? Well, the moderator is more than willing to hear your complaint the first time, a little less willing to hear it the third time, a bit disgruntled the fourth time, and pretty much pissed after the fifth time until they ban you. Now you can be as polite as possible when addressing a moderator like this, they will still react poorly to being badgered, especially if multiple people are badgering them over the same topic. Here is an example:
Well, at the risk of a double post warning... I'd like to show all of you why I'm tired of MTG and, for that matter, Wizards in general. I was banned from MTGO for "Spamming." This is most of the conversation, after I'd logged into a friend's account (keep in mind the times things were written and the intervals between):
5:38 Adept_Vision: Sorry but we cannot discuss the actions we take with other users,
only those who are involved. Thanks for understanding.
5:38 DarkJester666: But I am involved...
5:38 Adept_Vision: This isn't the account involved
5:39 DarkJester666: Well, its not like I can log in and talk about it, can I?
5:39 Adept_Vision: That is why you have to use the email
5:39 DarkJester666: You can obviously see the events that occured... so what
happened? And I did call, and I did email.
5:40 DarkJester666: I would like live help.
5:40 DarkJester666: This is the closet I have.
5:40 DarkJester666: *closetst.
5:40 Adept_Vision: I am sorry I am unable to provide the help you are requesting
5:40 DarkJester666: You can't scroll the chat box at all?
5:46 DarkJester666: Well...
5:46 Adept_Vision: I'm sorry, no I can't discuss it wirh you
5:47 DarkJester666: That's a cop-out. You know darn well you can see that I did
nothing wrong.
5:47 DarkJester666: I'm trying to solve this correctly.
5:48 DarkJester666: But two business days on a Friday? Not fair, sir.
5:48 Adept_Vision: You will have to wait for the email to be replied too... That is the
only way
5:48 DarkJester666: How hard is it for you to look at the chat log and just give me an
answer?
5:48 DarkJester666: I AM Parabol.
5:49 Adept_Vision: I can't discuss that sort of thing, except to the account in question
5:51 DarkJester666: Yeah... so I can wait 24 hours and bring it up again... then another
ban ensues. Nice.
5:52 DarkJester666: This isn't fair. C'mon, man. You are a player too... just look at the
chat log and give me an answer.
5:52 DarkJester666: Screw the Adept thing... I won't tell.
5:53 Adept_Vision: I am sorry, I am unable to do that
5:53 DarkJester666: Why? You know you can scroll the chat box up.
5:53 DarkJester666: You're a witness.
6:00 DarkJester666: Well, I guess it was about the non-Wizards URL... which is highly
unfair. You warnded me and another Adept bans me? That's cruel and unfair. I have
sent a reply email addresing this.
6:03 DarkJester666: Honestly... you have to realize how unfair that is.
6:08 DarkJester666: By the way, Musprime is now logged out. Nice evasive action.
6:08 Adept_Vision: If you were pleased, (or not pleased) with an adept, please visit
wizards.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wizards.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=434
. Copy the form then click "E-mail Us". (You'll need to create an account if you haven't
already). Select the Topics "Game/Product Question", "Magic: The Gathering Online",
"Magic Conduct/Community". Paste and finish the form that you copied.
6:09 DarkJester666: I've done that. I'm just wondering why two Adepts have taken
tewo measures.
6:10 DarkJester666: He's done this before, you know.
6:11 Adept_Vision: If you sent in a complaint, then I am sure Wizards has a record of it
6:12 DarkJester666: I didn't then. I did talk to Adept Gnome about it though.
6:13 DarkJester666: Look, the non-Wizards URL was a mistake from non-game IMs.
You warned me, I told you why and appologized. Another Apeot (Musprime) bans me...
What the heck!!!
6:14 Adept_Vision: I am sure wizards will explain when they reply back to you... I can't
discuss it
6:14 DarkJester666: You should... as a fellow gamer you should see how unfair this is.
6:17 DarkJester666: So, what I'm asking is you go ahead and send an email saying
that you warned me... and I shouldn't have been banned by another Adept. Am I right?
6:19 Adept_Vision: I don't understand that statenent, and I honestly can't discuss the
actions taken
6:19 Adept_Vision: Sorry
6:19 DarkJester666: You warned me... and another Adept (Musprime) bans me???
6:19 DarkJester666: At least back me up, man.
6:23 DarkJester666: Do't feed me any "macros" talk to me as a player...
6:24 DarkJester666: How unfair is this? And I can't do anything about it, can I?
6:24 DarkJester666: Not immediatly anyway.
6:24 Adept_Vision: Only wait for the email I'm afraid
6:24 DarkJester666: Yeah... I'm sure thay care.
6:25 Adept_Vision: There isn't anything you (or I) can do other then that
6:25 DarkJester666: One person doesn't matter.
6:25 DarkJester666: Also... banning me for seven (7) days???
6:26 DarkJester666: Cripes, man! What the heck!!!
6:26 DarkJester666: You know just as well as I do this is BS.
6:27 Adept_Vision: I can understand your frustration, and I am sorry...but there is really
nothing I can do
6:28 DarkJester666: Yeah... I'll bet you can't talk to anyone about this. Good ol'
Musprime gets to ban me anytime he sees me and I'm screwed because of "red tape."
6:31 DarkJester666: I understand you're inabilty to lift the ban... but at least back me
up. You did warn me about the (mistaken) altercation, correct?
6:33 Adept_Vision: I can't discuss my actions except to that account
6:34 DarkJester666: Oh of course not... give me no recourse... how nice and fair.
6:34 DarkJester666: You know dam well what happened, but do NOTHING to help?
Ugh, like talking to a robot. So, that's that. I'm tired of Wizards, tired of companies that care not about the consumer, but about the money the product generates.
In case youfre not getting from my example what I want I will ask this. How many times did the person of authority have to tell the affected individual that he couldnft do anything? How patient does a moderator need to be. A Community member may have a million justifications for their actions and just as much reasoning why they shouldnft be punished but that doesnft matter, continually goading the moderator results in banning and should require banning. No Moderator should have to put up with continuous demands over a subject they have already made a decision on. You can ask a moderator to change their mind but you canft make them and trying to will result in headaches for them and banning for you.
Okay, so now youfre all ready to be polite, you have your argument carefully typed up and you are confident that you have a case. Whatfs the best avenue to approach a moderator? Private Message (PM). The moderators are real good at responding to a PM and have no qualms with a behind the scene chat on a ruling, as long as it doesnft digress to a pleading and badgering on the individuals side. They moderators can agree with you and can change their mind, but they donft have to no matter how unfair you think it is. Once the Moderator makes their decision known it is best to stop. Also, be sure to send the PM to the Correct Moderator. It does you little good to send a complaint to the RPG Moderator when the problem occurred in the General Board.
Thatfs the best waycnow here are some major gDo Notfsh
Do NotcInsult a moderator or otherwise be rude to them. They are the authority and are an extension of Amelius. Doing so is typically a warnable offence.
Do NotcPublicly disagree with a moderator on their ruling. I canft stress this one enough. This is possibly one of the gravest insults anyone can do to a moderator and typically results in an instant warning, suspension, and or ban. No matter how polite and loving you are this is very rude, a deep and personal insult, its insubordination and does nothing for your cause. You will never resolve anything this way.
Do NotcContinually argue that your case is justifiable and that you are being repressed. Fight the powercwhatever. This is akin to badgering and is very annoying to the moderating staff. Itfs also typically the most common complaint PM they receive, so moderators who have been moderating for a while are usually Not receptive to it and may react harsher than you expect and think you disserve.
Do NotcTry to incite mass insubordination either through PM or Publicly. We are guests here, the administration team is hand picked by the administrator herself. If you have enough problems that you wish to incite some public rebellion then every participating member should be warned, suspended, and or banned. I am talking about threads like this: g forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?t=36467&highlight=Moderators g Even if you feel your justified and willing to take the warnings it is not necessarily and rarely ever productive. In a community as small as our own it is akin to a slap in the face at our administrator.
So now we live in a communistic regime?
Not really, you see a communist regime is based on the principal where everyone is equal and there are no class differences. I have already listed a hierarchy thus demonstrating that this is not a communistic regime. A more accurate analogy would be to compare a forum community as a dictatorship with responsibilities delegated to local lords. If you wish to rally against the stigma of a dictatorship make sure your e-mail is polite when you tell Amelius off. Of course sometimes the community simply wants to shout out their grievances.
To mediate this sometimes a gspeak your mindh forum is created for specific rulings handed down by the moderators. Often that simply becomes a headache due to getting flooded by gwhy was my post deleted,h gwhy was I banned,h and a common theme of degrading into flame. Usually the answer is self explanatory to all except the individual and maybe a few friends. Sometimes it is nice to have a simple reason explained on a ruling, but too often the banned individual (if banning is the case) will create multiple accounts just to complain. Which in itself is typically a warnable offence.
So you think the moderators are unfair.
Well it does happen. Sometimes Moderating duties get neglected and warnable offences seep through the cracks. Moderating responsibilities are a constant and the moderators do have lives outside the forums. If there is a post you question and wander why it hasnft been addressed the best thing to do is report it. Many forums have a greporth button under the post that is similar to the gquoteh button to alert moderators and allow the community some form of policing itself. You can always cite the name, thread, and post number in a PM if it really bothers you. If the moderators decide to leave it after that then that is their call.
Now what if you think moderators are treating Individual A different from Individual B. Well most often this is a case where one has a history with the moderators, usually negative, which has increased the ire of the moderators. No matter who you are you do not know everything behind the scenes and assuming such is foolish. The moderators will try their best to be impartial, but thatfs hard to do if someone is a repeat offender and badgering them continuously. The same goes with offending posts, a polite PM explaining why two posts are similar can go along way.
If you still have a grievance then it is possible to PM the Administrator. Know that they will most likely review the case and side with the Moderator, they were hand picked after all. Whatever behind the scene conclusion they make is their business.
So what about that clubhouse and how can I join?
Trust me friend, you donft want to. Itfs a masochistic club where they moderators continually torture themselves with discussion and deliberation. It is where they record verbal warning, and direct warnings. It is where PMfs of individuals that require a ruling are reviewed by the entire staff. It is a place of work as much behind the scenes as anything else. It is the office where our law enforcement have to deal with the nitty gritty and is never a fun place. (except for their keg parties) What they say there is none of your business and trying to assume what they say is very foolish.
So you want to be a Moderator
Still?!?
Your sick you know thatc.So you think Ifm longwinded
And it took you how long to figure that out? I mean look at my posts in the goh my godh thread. A freaking book! Ifd shudder to think the moderators, let alone anyone, forced themselves to read through all that.
On a personal note: I have visited and spent a lot of time on various forums. I was involved in a very sad breakdown of an entire site that had thousands of active community members. I have seen moderators so lax that they never did their duties and their respective forums fell to chaos and I have seen moderators so vulgar as to ban anyone that looked at them crosseyed. I find the administration team on this site very professional in their duties and responsibilities. They take their appointed position very seriously and try to handle everything as justly and organized manner. Too often Moderators get down for doing their duty and hearing nothing but complaints. I think we as a community need to show our appreciation and thank them for everything they have done and their patience in dealing with us.
Daggertooth
Note: I may edit this if I think of things to add.
