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Post by ihonestlydontknow on Feb 6, 2011 17:19:40 GMT -5
Now that I have your attention:
COMMUNISM!!!
I just want to say that I HATE it when people (especially Americans, shame on you fellow members of my nation) use the terms 'communist' or 'socialist' to refer to a government or a system that is not 'democratic' or does not work the way they want it to work.
Socialism is simply the public ownership of the means of production. Communism is the idea that eventually mankind will be so good at this 'public ownership' that they will just share stuff automatically. There has never been a truly communist government. Those two terms are mutually exclusive, 'communism' and 'government'.
This rediculous fear of 'socialism' or 'communism' is driving me up the wall.
A socialist govenment does not automatically mean that that government is unable to embrace democracy. If anything, socialism is more democratic then capitalism; when the public owns what's going on, not private investers, they have a much bigger say in what's going on. (OMG, YOU MEAN THEY GET A VOTE? LIKE HOW DEMOCRACY WORKS? Yes, yes I do.)
So, before you go around using the term 'socialist' to refer to a regime that seems (to you) opressive and negative, THINK, and remember: capitalism can result in horrid leaders too.
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Waker
Full Member
Bibliophile
Posts: 140
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Post by Waker on Feb 6, 2011 23:33:21 GMT -5
Can we still hate fascists?
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Post by Odin on Feb 7, 2011 3:52:00 GMT -5
Blame the media.
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Post by the1truesushiboy on Feb 7, 2011 4:27:43 GMT -5
I agree. People are surprisingly ignorant. But, to be honest, I'm entirely apathetic when it comes to politics.
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Post by nightreflection on Feb 7, 2011 14:30:11 GMT -5
Well, my political views, which would never get me elected anyway, other than 'all politicians are corrupt', are some of the least favourite policies of the far left and far right combined. So all in all, a lost cause! The biggest problem is that people who quote socialism are often Kavonn in sheep's clothing. The UK is, in fact, quite socialist in some ways already. For example, the benefits system and state medical care are all very un-capitalistic, however, socialism is still a big nono word. The main problem with socialism is that everyone is treated the same. While this is a good policy for the government to enforce: 1.) There will always be people more 'equal' than others (It never is enforced properly) 2.) There is no motivation for people to achieve - some might carry the torch, but human beings are selfish by nature. 3.) Whatever the reasons, it just doesn't work. Communistic countries are economically poor. China has managed to reverse this, but the cost in human rights violations is sickening. The quality of life, once the iron curtain falls, is shocking. Russian surgical equipment was found to be 30 years out of date. In general, the poor, on the street in a sleeping bag in the west live better than Heinz average in an uninsulated hovel with worn old-fashined bedding in the East.
Democracy isn't a perfect form of government, but it works better than everything else out there. I believe this is mainly due to leaders having to keep promises to be re-elected, and nothing else. Basically, power to the people, but not, I am not an anarchist. I think there should be structure, just, since real people are deciding the rules, it might as well have the input of everybody. I realise that involving everyone in every new law is logistically impossible.
See what long a snooze fest I hath spewed... I should run for office!
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Post by ihonestlydontknow on Feb 7, 2011 18:30:50 GMT -5
I never said it was perfect, I just want people to use the words correctly!
Also, the way you put things confuses me, no offense to you. I think it might be a case of you knowing what you mean, while I... don't. Kavonn in sheeps' clothing sounds silly and positive, rather than frightening. I'd say use a more evil character, but unfortuanely the most evil we can get from CTV so far is Quixoto, and even he has qualities that may turn out to be sympathetic. And are you saying that I, in fact, am Kavonn in sheeps clothing? I might be... I am pointing out that 'socialism' and 'communism' aren't dirty, dirty words.
1: That is true, as it is in all governments. 2: This... not so much. These things fall on a scale. The United states is waaaaaaay capitalist, but not exclusively so, while other countries, like Sweden, are less capitalist, but no less competative. Just because people share doesn't mean there isn't competition. Which is looking better: the dollar or the euro? Also, I find it silly to believe that a competitive culture is the only way to exist. Cooperation seems to work a lot better, when people are actually cooperating. 3: Here's the thing about modern economics: It's not so much how MUCH money you have, it's how you spend it. For example: Cuba. Poor? Yes. Does it have a lower infant mortality rate than the U.S. (the richest country in the world)? YES. True, socialist countries may have less money, but if their system is working, then the money goes to worth-while things, like schools and hospitals. China's actions are shocking and horrible, yes, but they don't seem to come from their 'communism' (actually socialism, they still have a government), but from wanting to keep up with the west- from competing with the west for the best nation. From the competition. And somehow I really, really doubt that someone living in a sleeping bag on the streets is better off. I mean, seriously, have you BEEN to some streets? They're COLD. Not to mention that the sleeping bag and the bedding are probably equally worn. And even though some hospital equipment was out of date, at least there was equipment and care.
I don't know how democracy and sharing have become so mutually exclusive in the minds of the west, but I wish it would stop. And that's my big bone to pick here. Everyone, EVERYONE assumes that socialism and democracy are mutually exclusive. That they're opposites. They're not. That democracy is the holy grail of Good Government. It's not. A democracy can be as bad as China was, and a dictatorship can be the best, healthiest, most literate, happiest place in the world to live. There are benefits to democracy and there are drawbacks.
-sigh- In the end it's amazing how quickly people see the words 'socialism' and 'communism' and AUTOMATICALLY throw up their 'PRO DEMOCRACY!!!' defence, when it's not really needed.
It makes me very, very sad indeed. Why can't we all just get along and share? Seriously. There are people going hungry every day. Who needs the money to throw a million dollar birthday party?
Ugh. I gotta stop, or I'll go so far to the left I'll come back from the right as what's-his-face. (Totally forgot the guy's name) Anyway, I'm off to go watch some Colbert Report, and laugh at good, good comedy.
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Post by nightreflection on Feb 8, 2011 17:16:38 GMT -5
Well, you raise a few interesing points. I won't stir anymore, but you haven't quite sold me on socialism yet.
I do agree that the 'spread democracy' thing is based on prejudice rather than reason (not saying it's good or bad),.
I must admit I do get my guard up when the words socialism or communism are mentioned. Not because I completely disagree with them, but, while a few people can hold a reasonable conversation, many are one-sided or go off on a rant.
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